Thursday, July 17, 2008
I'm going to keep updating this one as it develops
first, lets remember http://www.gop.com/ObamaIraq.htm
and for a short intro story -
we're undoutably wining the war, ever since mccain's troop surge plan was pushed through. obama is now saying that HIS plan would work because of the extraordinary outcome of (although he will not say it) mccain's plan. i really hope mccain is recognized for his disicive support of plan, and people realize that obama is just sugercoating his plan because he can't re-write history.
Barack Obama purges Web site critique of surge in Iraq
BY JAMES GORDON MEEK
DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU
Monday, July 14th 2008, 8:10 PM
WASHINGTON - Barack Obama's campaign scrubbed his presidential Web site over the weekend to remove criticism of the U.S. troop "surge" in Iraq, the Daily News has learned.
The presumed Democratic nominee replaced his Iraq issue Web page, which had described the surge as a "problem" that had barely reduced violence.
"The surge is not working," Obama's old plan stated, citing a lack of Iraqi political cooperation but crediting Sunni sheiks - not U.S. military muscle - for quelling violence in Anbar Province.
The News reported Sunday that insurgent attacks have fallen to the fewest since March 2004.
Obama's campaign posted a new Iraq plan Sunday night, which cites an "improved security situation" paid for with the blood of U.S. troops since the surge began in February 2007.
It praises G.I.s' "hard work, improved counterinsurgency tactics and enormous sacrifice."
Campaign aide Wendy Morigi said Obama is "not softening his criticism of the surge. We regularly update the Web site to reflect changes in current events."
GOP rival John McCain zinged Obama as a flip-flopper. "The major point here is that Sen. Obama refuses to acknowledge that he was wrong," said McCain, adding that Obama "refuses to acknowledge that it [the surge] is succeeding."
Let's get started:
Before being "refined":
"BARACK OBAMA: TURNING THE PAGE IN IRAQ"
"OBAMA'S PLAN TO RESPONSIBLY END THE WAR IN IRAQ"
_____lets hear it_____
"Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning. In 2002...."
_____bla bla bla_____
"THE SURGE IS NOT WORKING"
_____denial isn't just a river in egypt
"Iraq violence falls to four-year low" May 26, 2008
life before the surge
"Life In Hell"
life after the surge
"Back to Baghdad"
"Iraqi Government Not Stepping Up"
_____ That is not what the mid-east nations (sunni-led, non-the-less) think
"Uneven Gains Not Sustainable Without Iraqi Action"
_____ Iraqi Army Takes Last Basra Areas From Sadr Force - April 20, 2008
"AMERICAN MILITARY CANNOT SUSTAIN CURRENT STRATEGY IN IRAQ"
_____ ummm.... do you even know what it is?
"Military Stretched Thin"
_____ but not broken
"A SUBSTANTIAL, IMMEDIATE REDEPLOYMENT OF AMERICAN TROOPS"
_____From Iraq Study Group Report:
Because of the importance of Iraq, the potential for catastrophe, and the role and commitments of the United States in initiating events that have led to the current situation, we believe it would be wrong for the United States to abandon the country through a precipitate withdrawal of troops and support. A premature American departure from Iraq would almost certainly produce greater sectarian violence and further deterioration of conditions, leading to a number of the adverse consequences outlined above. The near-term results would be a significant power vacuum, greater human suffering, regional destabilization, and a threat to the global economy. Al Qaeda would depict our withdrawal as a historic victory. If we leave and Iraq descends into chaos, the long-range consequences could eventually require the United States to return. _____
" All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009"
____he wouldn't even be inaugarated until jan. 2009 _____
"Residual Force to Remain"
"A NEW EFFORT TOWARDS IRAQI NATIONAL RECONCILIATION"
_____From Iraq Study Group Report:
national reconciliation, including the negotiation of a "political deal" among Iraq's sectarian groups on Constitution review, de-Baathification, oil revenue sharing, provincial elections, the future of Kirkuk, and amnesty; security, particularly curbing militias and reducing the violence in Baghdad; and governance, including the provision of basic services and the rollback of pervasive corruption. _____
"A United Nations-Led Constitutional Convention"
_____ okay.... he doesn't like the one already written, so he wants a bunch of foreiners to write a new one for the iraqis. i wonder how the iraqis would feel about having their constitution scraped for one obama likes. CHANGE _____
"Refuse to Provide U.S. Assistance to Sectarian Actors"
_____ because we actually try to help sectarian actors, right mr. obama? _____
"A DIPLOMATIC SURGE IN THE MIDDLE EAST"
_____ i will put this part in it's entirty:
"Support for Iraqi Stability: Barack Obama would work with Kurdish leaders to come to an accommodation
with Turkish leaders who see the Kurdish ascendance as a threat. He would press Sunni Arab states like Saudi Arabia to use their influence to encourage Iraqi Sunnis to reconcile. To combat terrorism, Obama would press
Iran, Syria, and Saudi Arabia to stem the flow of foreign fighters, arms, and financial resources into Iraq. Obama also would be a tough negotiator with Syria and Iran, sending a clear message that they need to stop
meddling in Iraq’s affairs. Prevent the War's Spread Beyond Iraq: To prevent spillover -- in particular, Turkish or Iranian adventurism -
- the Obama plan would promote a regional compact that would ensure commitments by Iraq's neighbors to non-intervention and to Iraq's territorial integrity.
A New Cooperative Security Framework in the Gulf: As we disengage from Iraq's civil war, America needs
to support regional sources of stability. This is particularly important given recent claims from Iranian President
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad that Iran will fill any vacuum created by American withdrawal. Barack Obama would
work to develop a long-term strategy of regional cooperation. This will not only improve Iraq's stabilization
and regional integration, but also serve as a check against Iran's regional ambitions."
lets sit down and talk, unconditionally, make a speech, they will listen to you. it worked on kool-aid drinking high school kids, why is this any different? ______
"ADDRESS IRAQ'S HUMANITARIAN CRISIS"
_____ without enough troops _____
"Iraq is Facing a Humanitarian Crisis Right Now"
_____really? lets pull the troops! ______
"Take Care of Refugees"
_____ that would be nice, especially since there will be a lot more once the obama plan is in place _____
"Secure International Assistance"
_____ we have been trying to do that. but this is different because they will drink obama kool-aid. speech ______
_____ wothout enough troops? how? oh yeah, you will tell the un to do it, that will really "restore the world's faith in america"
"Fulfill America's Obligation to Accept Refugees"
and to do that "Obama would expedite the Department of Homeland
Security's review of Iraqi asylum applicants". okay.... but also tell "Great Britain, Australia, Italy, Spain, the Netherlands" as well as "Arab governments, especially American allies such as Saudi Arabia and Kuwait" to "expand their refugee quotas"... that will really "restore the world's faith in america", .... especially since there will be a lot more once the obama plan is in place ______
"OBAMA OPPOSED THE WAR IN IRAQ FROM THE BEGINNING"
_____ bla bla bla. said that already _______
Now his "Refined" NYT one (The NYT later revealed that Obama has a team of 300 Foreign Policy Advisors that tell him what questions to expect and how to answer them, an example given appears repeatedly in this article - “a genuine opportunity,” - begging the question of how much of this article is is genuin Obama):
My Plan for Iraq By BARACK OBAMA Published: July 14, 2008"
let's hear it
"CHICAGO — The call by Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki for a timetable for the removal of American troops from Iraq presents an enormous opportunity. We should seize this moment to begin the phased redeployment of combat troops that I have long advocated, and that is needed for long-term success in Iraq and the security interests of the United States."
________Nice try, straw man. let's tell the whole story -
[The Iraqi timeline proposal made public Tuesday appears to set an outer limit, requiring U.S. forces to fully withdraw five years after the Iraqis take the lead on security nationwide — though that precondition could itself take years. ]
From what it sounds like the Iraqis want a conditions based system where these conditions have to be met. Then when those are done they want a US withdrawal within such a time-period (NOT A SPECIFIC DATE) to ensure we don't sit around. The government wants US help until its up and running, then us out of there so they can get going and I can understand that._______
"The differences on Iraq in this campaign are deep. Unlike Senator John McCain, I opposed the war in Iraq before it began, and would end it as president."
________HEY, THIS PART WASN'T REFINED! "Barack Obama opposed the war in Iraq from the beginning. In 2002...." bla bla bla________
"I believed it was a grave mistake to allow ourselves to be distracted from the fight against Al Qaeda and the Taliban by invading a country that posed no imminent threat and had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Since then, more than 4,000 Americans have died and we have spent nearly $1 trillion. Our military is overstretched. Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown."
______This was just complaining - and an exageration http://www.ftleavenworthlamp.com/articles/2008/06/12/news/news10.txt - until the part whare it says "Nearly every threat we face — from Afghanistan to Al Qaeda to Iran — has grown." The only thing that has grown with respect to Iran is the number of names in their checkbook, the exception being Sadr, who seems to be getting more unpopular by the day. as for Al Qaeda, lets ask them what they have to say about that
"In the 18 months since President Bush announced the surge, our troops have performed heroically in bringing down the level of violence. New tactics have protected the Iraqi population, and the Sunni tribes have rejected Al Qaeda — greatly weakening its effectiveness. "
________but you said - "THE SURGE IS NOT WORKING" and "Uneven Gains Not Sustainable Without Iraqi Action" and "AMERICAN MILITARY CANNOT SUSTAIN CURRENT STRATEGY IN IRAQ" - THAT IS WHAT YOU SAID_____
"But the same factors that led me to oppose the surge still hold true. The strain on our military has grown, the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated and we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted. Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country, and they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge."
lets take this one 1-point-at-a-time. "The strain on our military has grown"- an exageration http://www.ftleavenworthlamp.com/articles/2008/06/12/news/news10.txt
"the situation in Afghanistan has deteriorated" - in relation to what? it was 'better' before the invation of Iraq? http://www.time.com/time/covers/1101020318/popup/
"we’ve spent nearly $200 billion more in Iraq than we had budgeted" - it would have been less if more people did what you did and voted against funding the troops
"Iraq’s leaders have failed to invest tens of billions of dollars in oil revenues in rebuilding their own country" - first of all http://www.usatoday.com/news/military/2008-05-21-iraqarms_N.htm
second, if we can't handle corruption (Tony Rezco), you expect a government only a few years free and has been in war for it's whole existance to be able too and use it as an excuse to abandan the Iraqi people?
"they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge"
nice try straw man, the surge was too create an environment whare it can happen, not only did you contradict yourself in this same op-ed, but http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121331389679269827.html?mod=googlenews_wsj ____
"The good news is that Iraq’s leaders want to take responsibility for their country by negotiating a timetable for the removal of American troops. Meanwhile, Lt. Gen. James Dubik, the American officer in charge of training Iraq’s security forces, estimates that the Iraqi Army and police will be ready to assume responsibility for security in 2009."
____but in the last sentence, you said "they have not reached the political accommodation that was the stated purpose of the surge." and you did that straw man thing again, the Iraqis want a conditions based system where these conditions have to be met. Then when those are done they want a US withdrawal within such a time-period (NOT A SPECIFIC DATE) to ensure we don't sit around. The government wants US help until its up and running, then us out of there so they can get going and I can understand that.____
"Only by redeploying our troops can we press the Iraqis to reach comprehensive political accommodation and achieve a successful transition to Iraqis’ taking responsibility for the security and stability of their country. Instead of seizing the moment and encouraging Iraqis to step up, the Bush administration and Senator McCain are refusing to embrace this transition — despite their previous commitments to respect the will of Iraq’s sovereign government. They call any timetable for the removal of American troops “surrender,” even though we would be turning Iraq over to a sovereign Iraqi government."
______again, the Iraqis want a conditions based system where these conditions have to be met. Then when those are done they want a US withdrawal within such a time-period (NOT A SPECIFIC DATE) to ensure we don't sit around. The government wants US help until its up and running, then us out of there so they can get going and I can understand that. you have to tell the whole truth, not twist it to suit your political wants. doing your idea of a pull-out, which is not what anybody else you mentioned here was talking about, would just be "i'm sick of this" and leaving, aka “surrender”_______
"But this is not a strategy for success — it is a strategy for staying that runs contrary to the will of the Iraqi people, the American people and the security interests of the United States. That is why, on my first day in office, I would give the military a new mission: ending this war."
_____this is a combination of lies and stupidity______
"As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in. We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began. After this redeployment, a residual force in Iraq would perform limited missions: going after any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia, protecting American service members and, so long as the Iraqis make political progress, training Iraqi security forces. That would not be a precipitous withdrawal."
_______"As I’ve said many times, we must be as careful getting out of Iraq as we were careless getting in" - if you are going to talk the talk, you have to walk the walk. nobody that you mentioned in this op-ed agrees with your plans, and neather does Petraeus, yet you stick to it.
"We can safely redeploy our combat brigades at a pace that would remove them in 16 months. That would be the summer of 2010 — two years from now, and more than seven years after the war began" - so first it's " All Combat Troops Redeployed by 2009" (he wouldn't even be inaugarated until jan. 2009) then it's by the end of 2009 (which still isn't 16 months) and now it is " summer of 2010" (he finally got his months right), and leave a "residual force" in Iraq to "perform limited missions" like going after "any remnants of Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia", which before he said Al Qaeda has grown because of us not withdrawing Iraq, but now says that only remnants now remain in Iraq, said all in one op-ed._____
"In carrying out this strategy, we would inevitably need to make tactical adjustments. As I have often said, I would consult with commanders on the ground and the Iraqi government to ensure that our troops were redeployed safely, and our interests protected. We would move them from secure areas first and volatile areas later. We would pursue a diplomatic offensive with every nation in the region on behalf of Iraq’s stability, and commit $2 billion to a new international effort to support Iraq’s refugees."
_____??? these claims don't seem to have been 'refined', it is the same stupid idea from before_____
"Ending the war is essential to meeting our broader strategic goals, starting in Afghanistan and Pakistan, where the Taliban is resurgent and Al Qaeda has a safe haven. Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been. As Adm. Mike Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, recently pointed out, we won’t have sufficient resources to finish the job in Afghanistan until we reduce our commitment to Iraq. "
_____Mullen did not say to compleatly withdraw like you are advocating, and actually "Adm. Mike Mullen, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, has suggested that if security continues to improve in Iraq, the Pentagon may be able to send some units to Afghanistan instead of Baghdad as scheduled early next year. But he has also stressed that he will wait for Petraeus to make his assessment.""- AP
. But there is another, more disterbing part of this. you said - "Iraq is not the central front in the war on terrorism, and it never has been" but http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/03/20/binladen.message/index.html
he doesn't really say anything else, but I will put the rest anyway______
"As president, I would pursue a new strategy, and begin by providing at least two additional combat brigades to support our effort in Afghanistan. We need more troops, more helicopters, better intelligence-gathering and more nonmilitary assistance to accomplish the mission there. I would not hold our military, our resources and our foreign policy hostage to a misguided desire to maintain permanent bases in Iraq.
In this campaign, there are honest differences over Iraq, and we should discuss them with the thoroughness they deserve. Unlike Senator McCain, I would make it absolutely clear that we seek no presence in Iraq similar to our permanent bases in South Korea, and would redeploy our troops out of Iraq and focus on the broader security challenges that we face. But for far too long, those responsible for the greatest strategic blunder in the recent history of American foreign policy have ignored useful debate in favor of making false charges about flip-flops and surrender.
It’s not going to work this time. It’s time to end this war.
Barack Obama, a United States senator from Illinois, is the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee."
Obama: Surge Succeeded Beyond ‘Wildest Dreams’
Thursday, September 4, 2008
The troop surge in Iraq has been more successful than anyone could have imagined, Barack Obama conceded Thursday in his first-ever interview on FOX News’ “The O’Reilly Factor.”
As recently as July, the Democratic presidential candidate declined to rate the surge a success, but said it had helped reduce violence in the country. On Thursday, Obama acknowledged the 2007 increase in U.S. troops has benefited the Iraqi people.
“I think that the surge has succeeded in ways that nobody anticipated,” Obama said while refusing to retract his initial opposition to the surge. “I’ve already said it’s succeeded beyond our wildest dreams.”
However, he added, the country has not had enough “political reconciliation” and Iraqis still have not taken responsibility for their country.
Speaking on other national security matters, Obama said he would not take military action off the table in dealing with Iran, but diplomacy and sanctions can’t be overlooked.
The Islamic republic is a “major threat” and it would be “unacceptable” for the rogue nation to develop a nuclear weapon, he said.
“It is unacceptable for Iran to possess a nuclear weapon, it would be a game changer,” Obama said. “It’s sufficient to say I would not take military action off the table and that I will never hesitate to use our military force in order to protect the homeland and the United States’ interests.”
But Obama also warned against the current U.S. administration lumping radical Islamic groups together.
“They have fueled a whole host of terrorist organizations,” Obama said of Iran, but “we have to have the ability to distinguish between groups. … They may not all be part and parcel of the same ideology.”
Obama sat down with O’Reilly in York, Pa., after holding a discussion on the economy with voters nearby. The Illinois senator has been campaigning in battleground states since accepting the Democratic presidential nomination last Thursday at his party’s convention in Denver.
Obama said he “absolutely” believes the United States is fighting a War on Terror, with the enemy being, “Al Qaeda, the Taliban, a whole host of networks that are bent on attacking America, who have a distorted ideology, who have perverted the faith of Islam.”
He repeated his campaign’s foreign policy position that Afghanistan must become the “central front” in the War on Terror.
Obama was first asked to come on “The O’Reilly Factor” in early 2007. The interview will air in three more parts after Thursday, from Monday through Wednesday next week.
I don't want Obama in charge of my security, he can not even write an honest op-ed that doesn't contradict itself from paragragh to paragragh, or admit his own changes and mistakes.
now, no matter what anybody says, after all the political attacks, and all those like obama who said 'no we can't', no matter how anybody tries to spin this, the determination of the Republican party never wavered; and for that confidence in our heroic servicemen and women, all our allies, and the truly inspiring courage of the Iraqi people who strove for freedom in their darkest hour;
We Won The War; And The Rebublic Of Fear Is Gone Forever
Posted by Spyridon at 7:19 PM